Jason Matheson launched Betty and Earl's Biscuits after his friend and business partner Jen Lueck convinced him they were something special that needed to be shared. Adrienne Odom, their partner, and baker joined the team, and they started making the flaky, delicious biscuits that northerners and southerners alike dream of at Potluck in Roseville. What's next for Betty and Earl's? Listen to the podcast and find out where they will be popping up next.
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I'm at s Hansen, H N s n mar[email protected] It's s Hansen [email protected] For small business marketing for things like social media, recipe development, influencer posting, and just general PR help and getting the word out about your products. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the makers in Minnesota where we talk to cool people doing cool things. And I am here today with a personal friend and I'm excited to interview him to talk about his business. I'm here with Jason Matheson. And we are talking about Betty and Earl's biscuits. Welcome, Jason. Hi, sweetie. It is really fun to talk to you. Because we obviously talk on the radio and we talk on TV about lots of stuff that everybody else is doing. But we don't get a chance to really hear about your business side of your life. And it's really exciting. How old is Betty in URLs? Oh, we opened the November of 2019. So yay for us right before the pandemic. And who knew? Because you guys, you had a really great opening from what I recall. And people were really excited about that intervals and these are biscuits. And can you tell us sort of about the biscuits and why you decided to start this company? Yeah, well, the biscuits are my pap on grammas are really my Pappa Earl's recipe. That's my dad's side of the family. There's Southern The reason I refer to him as pap off. They lived and grew up well. I think Earl was born in Alabama. I always get this wrong. But he was born in Alabama, but spent a big chunk of his time in Tennessee and Kentucky and it was there where he met my grandma, my grandma Betty and her kin, her aunts. her aunts taught Earl how to make these biscuits. You know, all good Southern women, most most southern women know how to make a biscuit and taut URL. And he perfected it over the years. And you know, fast forwarding a bit. I was born I'm you know, he had I have several uncles and it became a tradition for us and our family. There wasn't really a weekend. That sticks in my memory still that didn't include getting a phone call from papa Telling my mom to come on down. We lived about two miles up the road, as we say in Indiana and come on up. Come on up. They're almost ready. I can kind of hear them and we would go and they would be the biscuits and gravy and it was Annette believable. I mean, I my my childhood memories, like a lot of ours are connected with food, whether it's tap on URL, or my mom's mom, who I watched my favorite show Dallas with it's an eight long john Silver's it's all food related. But anyway, so I sadly lost him in oh three. And I lost both of them actually within two months of each other. And I got this cookware because I was the grandchild. The other grandchildren really didn't take an interest in the baking. I did I watched them and help them over the years. So that was 2003. So over the years I i doodled with them, you know, I would make them every so often. But really, it was about six years ago. Think about six years ago that to my best friend Jen. And I started talking about this because I made them for her and she would you know, Jen is in the restaurant business. And she was like chase these, these there's something different about these. And you know, you know how ideas are stuff, you talk about it and then you drink a little bit more and then you drink a little bit more and then you know the you stopped talking about it. And it was August of 2019 when an opportunity came up from Rosedale Rosedale center and Jen. I'll never step on. Never forget this as long as I live, Jen, we were up at the cabin, my husband's family cabin where that's mainly the test kitchen. That was the test kitchen. Jen looked at me and she goes, um, yeah. So you know, Betty and Earls? And I said, Yeah, choose? Well, I think we need to do it. And I said, Okay, and she was, and I think we need to do it by November. And I went, What? And there we go, there's, there's kind of a quick, abridged version of Yeah, what was birthed. So Rosedale comes to you and says, they want you to do buddy in URLs. And you know that you and Jen have this idea and your friends? What is that like to start a business with your friend? And were you worried? Like some friends have falling outs over this stuff? You know, um, you know, what, I appreciate the question I, I was not real concerned with Jen, you know, we're, um, personality wise, we have some things in common, but just like in my marriage, my strengths, or I'm sorry, my weaknesses are very much her strengths, not so much the other way around. But, and that's a compliment to Jen. I knew she could do it. You know, it's, she's owned a restaurant before highly successful. She's in the restaurant business. I've always respected her. Her judgment is always in my opinion, I'm a little biased, but spot on. And, you know, one of my favorite phrases that I quote, her, is do one thing and do it really well. You know, when she would see a troubled restaurant, you can usually boil it down to the restaurant not doing that. They're trying to do too many things. Jen would get very frustrated, be like, do one thing and do it well. And this was that stuff that this was the deficit. I mean, hello, biscuit. So no, I wasn't, I wasn't afraid, because I knew she would have my back. And the audience may or may not know that you have a radio show. That's Monday through Friday, from six to nine. And you don't have a TV show. That's Monday through Friday, from 10 to 11. So adding a third job might seem kind of crazy. How did you decide to add that to your life? And do you guys split the duties? 5050? Or how does that work? Yeah, another good question. Yeah. I it was another honest moment. I, you know, going back to that conversation in the cabinet, when she said, we need to do this, and we need to do this quick. I said to her, then I was, you know, I laughed. But I said to her, I go, I can't do this. I mean, I had to literal full time jobs. I mean, people, you know, when you think of the shows, I mean, the radio show and the TV show. Yeah, there are a lot of fun, but it's daily. I mean, you know this stuff? Yeah. It's, it's it's daily, I'm looking down the barrel of three hours of a radio show every day where you start from scratch. And the same thing with the television show. The work of those shows don't end when the credits roll. So I said to her, I can't do this. And she says, Oh, I know. I know that. But we're going to put a structure in place. We're going to put people in place where Yeah, so I'm not what's the step you'll know, better than I a working owner? What is that the term? I'm not? I'm not so much a working owner at all. So quite honestly, the division of labor she does. Most of if not all, the business aspect. I am there really as the cheerleader, kind of the brand ambassador, that's really dramatic. And but it's true. Yeah. And that's because that's my family. I mean, it's it. A lot of you know, you read the back of menus, that's a family tradition since 19. This is really my family. And most, you know, Jen would say this to the key. Literally, I mean, the key to all of this was meeting, Adrian Odom, who is our our third partner. This without a doubt could not have happened without. And for people who don't know, I'm a renowned pastry chef. In in our market, I would say I'm again biased in the country. This couldn't have happened without her. So Adrian's the chef and the baker and the pastry expert Jen's the business side you're the face of it. What I do recall when you open this business is I recall going to an opening in November and I am somewhat of a food person and I've had quite a few biscuits I knew right away that there was something different about the biscuits because it was different texture. And I know the secret sauce which I don't think okay, cuz you I've been in your kitchen and you guys have showed me but it really is a different biscuit and that it's not super heavy, but it really holds up well. And also I A lot of biscuits tend to be really salty. And it doesn't seem super salty, it just like the amount of butter to the ingredients, the ratios all seem right. I also like how you use the biscuit so it's not just biscuits and gravy or just biscuit. But like one of the biscuits you had over the summer was a blueberry lemon biscuit that I thought was fantastic. And you really have incorporated lots of different types of biscuits. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because all of that what you just said stuff, all of that. Bravo to Adrian, literally everything that you just said that and that is Bravo to Adrian and I will quickly number one, the, the the texture, the recipe, the truth of the matter is a biscuit recipe is pretty standard. That's why when people ask me, can I have the recipe is really not. It's really not the recipe there is one key ingredient that's very different that we literally have shipped in you can't buy it, you know Piggly Wiggly, but it really is technique. That's really when people do ask me, that's my short answer. It is all about the technique of making them. That's why they are hard to do stuff. I think you and I talked about this. I was I was the universe worked well for us. The week we open the New York Times did an article, big story. And I think the headline was something like why can't Americans make a good biscuit? They're very hard to make Adrian and because these are small batch items, stuff, it's you know, I can make a pretty consistent good eight nine biscuits, Adrian had to crack the code stuff of how to make these in volume. But still keep them handmade, still keep the essence of the recipe that Earl did. You know, let me be blunt. And he was proud. A hillbilly in a kitchen. As he called himself. He had she had to keep all of that but make them on a scale. She's the only one she cracked the code, the biscuit code and the flavors you mentioned. That's that's what sets apart stuff other than the quality of the biscuit. I think our flavors and blueberry lemon one that you mentioned. That's that was one of the tests Jen and I tried making that that was one of the first flavors we experimented with. So I'm glad you liked it. Yeah, I did like it. And so you open up it's November. One of the things that really impressed me about you. And I always I mean, you're a hard worker, there's no question in my mind about that. But I don't think people really understand that from when you opened in November to like Christmas time. You legit went to Betty and Earl's almost every day, and greeted customers and met people. And when you talk about being the face of something, you know, it probably seems like oh, well, he's got a radio show. And he's got a TV show so he can promote his own stuff. Like there's rules about that. So you really had to get out there and beat the streets. Was it exhausting? No, I was I told Jim, it's a different type of show stuff, you know that I was really energized by it. Because I'm not trying to be woowoo here. But I've said this so many times. There is a different type of joy with this stuff. Obviously TV is what I always wanted to do. I was very lucky. I don't know what it's like to not know what you what your mission in life is. I don't know what that's like, I've always known I was gonna do TV. This was a different type of joy. And I was motivated. Yeah, I was crazy. But I was motivated because you know, stuff, my URL vetting URL, my Patreon, grandma were dirt poor. I mean, like, pour. Without an R. I mean, they were just pour their house was the size of Betty and URLs are front. That was the size of my cap on grandma's house. So the fact stuff that their name, I'm big on logos, I love our logo, the fact that our that logo, my grandparents name, our is on boxes, and signs. I could cry thinking I mean, I really could I mean, that's that that means the world to me, I don't care what I do for the rest of my life, it will be a really good thing. So that's what motivated me. But the pandemic changed everything for a lot of us and me. I wasn't allowed. I I haven't been in there a lot lately. Because you know, as you know, both companies I work for Fox and Hubbard radio, I couldn't really be mingling with the public at all. So I wasn't I wasn't allowed to go in there. Because if I did go in there, then I would have to quarantine with both jobs anyway. So I'm getting back in the groove now. And I'm excited because I can start going back in there like I did. When we opened. One of the things that I thought was funny about vetting URLs is I think people usually start making a product first and then take it to retail second, like they started a farmers market but you went right to like you open this bakery, this big shop and now post pandemic you're exploring ways to bring this product into other restaurants. Tell us about that a little bit, Jen. I mean, I let me credit Jen and Adrian, you know, during the pandemic, you know, Adrian was there every single day keeping us afloat in the literal sense as far as she was. Staying home wasn't an option for her. So she, she kept us going, Jen, her strength was, and she said a version of this, I'm not going to quote her, right? She's like, you know, in some ways, this is really going to show the hustle. And I think, Steph, you feel the same way. If this is really going to show us the hustle of some owners, you know, and who, who is going to evolve through this and evolve successfully, and in a way stuff. I don't ever want to say there was anything positive about the last 16 months heavens No, have a no, but it did force this stuff to even work harder. Because we had to I remember watching the press conference from the governor where we were going to be shut down the next day. And True Story step, Jen, Adrian, I was sitting in the booth at potluck in Rosedale. And Jen goes, we got to get these out. We got to get these to the into the hands of people, however we can. And that's how we came up with the biscuit love tour. Adrian worked or erce off every weekend, baking hundreds of biscuits, we had people pre order them, and then fitting Shin Jin and I got in a car, loaded them into two cars and hung out in parking lots for most of the most weekends in the first three or four months of the pandemic. But just but stuff. You know what that did for us that got our biscuits into the hands of people who would normally either a not even know who I am, or B would never wouldn't go to Rosedale right actually helped us it actually helped us stuff. And then from there you guys signed up with gold belly, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yummy. I want to know like, what did that do to your business? Did it grow it like a couple percentage points? Did it double it? Like what is doing that? Like? Girl? You know, I don't know about percentage points and stuff. I think it doubled it if I think it doubled it. Look, I can tell you this, it has done wonders for us. Again, on a much bigger scale how the biscuit love tour got our biscuits in the hands of people around the metro. Gold belly has put the biscuits in the hands of people around the country. General what you know, when we when we do meet. Jen tells me all the states and How fun is that to see all the states where the orders are coming in Maine and New York and in the south, which you know, you don't need to go You can't you don't have to swing anything to hit a biscuit place in the south. Were really big there. And you know and, and a little fun note. It's putting putting the biscuits in the hands of some really cool people to stuff like Reba McIntyre. That was fun. That was really fun. If I can, if I may say who said they were the best biscuits she's ever had. And Reba being the queen of country and probably eating her fair share of biscuits. When you read that Reba McIntyre thinks your biscuits are as the kids used to say the bomb that made my month I was dancing around the living room when I got that text message. Right. So from there, you're looking at some collaborations like you did a pop up with the Lexington last weekend. And biscuits obviously, like the chicken sandwich thing is going crazy everywhere. Will you like possibly have a biscuit chicken sandwich or will you more partner with restaurants and keep more of the traditional biscuits at Betty internals stuff? As Bethenny Frankel says we come from a place Yes, I we are we have things that we're working on that I'm excited about really excited about, like I and I hope that you'll have me back when I can talk more about it. I don't mean to be one of those cagey guests. But what I can tell you is the collaborations like the one at the Lexington smack shack, we've done brunches, pop up brunches. They have been incredibly successful for us and for our partner. We just did one like you said the Lexington that blew us away jack ruble did such a good job with the biscuits and Jen and I because we're these people and you would too. We went around stuff. We went around to tables. And we're like Hi everybody. How's the bisque people people are looking at us like Who the hell are you and get known everyone was very nice but and smack shack you know this stuff smack has been a great partner Josh and the team that we have a whole Betty and Earl's brunch menu permanently located on their on their brunch menu. So that's cool. It is cool. And I wonder like is groceries something that's on your agenda because with the pandemic we saw the rise of growth stream numbers like grocery stores had increased their sales 1020 30%. And I know it's kind of dialing back again now that people can get out. But I think there's still an opportunity in frozen foods is there not? There is so lunz and buyer leads, Mr. Mr. lunz, and byerley. If you would like to call me My phone number is 612. I'm just joking, but no, yeah, absolutely i, because we have found out stuff again, through the pandemic, the frozen our frozen biscuits, which are still handmade and frozen really quickly. They bake up. Now this sounds like I'm doing an infomercial with Suzanne Somers. But they really do bake up as beautifully. As if I made them in my kitchen or Adrian make them made them fresh. I was amazed. I was worried about that. So Heck, yeah. I mean, I would really love to partner, we would really love to partner with the local brands, like a ones or buy or lease. That would be great. I would. Yeah. Yeah. And there's two ways that that can happen usually, right. So sometimes people will buy your product and co pack it and branded themselves. Other times, they will bring your product in, in the freezer section. But what's interesting about this is it there's so distinct businesses that are so different, right? So running a restaurant is real different or a bake shop, then, you know, communicating with frozen food buyers, and, and producing them or like doing co packing, you know, it's all just Yeah, very distinct businesses that you have to learn. It's not seamless, like people would think. No. And again, it's an area where thank goodness, I have Adrian and Jen, Jen on this side of it, because a young girl, please, I I talk about Beyonce for a living. So I wouldn't I wouldn't put nowhere to I wouldn't know where to start. But no, I think there are some you know, what's exciting stuff is there's so many opportunities with these biscuits are real, you know, they're, they're growing, they're real hot. And I'm real confident that ours are the bat. I mean, they really are they that we there is a difference with ours. And so anyone that tries them, I'm confident they'll be like, Okay, let's do something. So that's really exciting to me. One thing that's kind of funny that people I don't know, maybe people know this, but the media life is sort of a short lived life, right? Any day, we could get fired any day, our shows could get canceled, like, you just have no idea. And there's literally zero job security in any of that. So what I like about this, as I feel like you're you're just at the super beginning stages of what could really be a very big business. Yeah, you know what, and I've never said this, this isn't big, some big dramatic thing. But I haven't said this really publicly, I have really, you know, I'm approaching 50 i 40. You know, eventually, and I have really thought long and hard now that I will, you know, one of the shows will probably go away sooner rather than later. I mean, not tomorrow, but um, I can see maybe taking the TV show to like your 10 we're in you know, season six, and kind of wrapping one up. And really using you know, and betting in URLs kind of being that you know, retirement thing stuff. I mean, just kind of not really passive income. There's nothing passive about this business. But but that's that's kind of what I would love to see happen, because and that's not by accident, because as you said, media is so fickle. They love you one day and so you know, you do protect yourself. But yeah, absolutely. On a personal level. That's how I see this but yet, and exciting at the same time. Okay, this is kind of a personal question. So Gird your loins, Lord, do you like get a check, like every two weeks from buddy and URLs? Or do you reinvest the profits back into the company? Or do you at the end of the year take out what's ever left over? God? I love you. Well, these are business questions. re Yeah, no reinvest. I mean, yeah, believe me, I, I, I haven't seen No, I mean, reinvest. We're a new business, you know, this, it takes a long time for anything like that to happen. So no, read, everything's been reinvested. Because, you know, the pandemic, and I don't mean to keep using that as a reason or excuse, but that has forced us to zig and zag and Zig again, and zag so well, and so important that you keep your Baker who's you know, producing the product so important that you kept her on the payroll and kept things moving and kept things going. You know, yeah. Way joining the team. Yeah, the entire baking team. I mean, Adrian to the team, literally stuff. My goodness. They have kept us quite literally, our doors open, and they're amazing, and they're proud of the product and they should be I mean, it's just they're just a great team. We're so freakin lucky. You Have a podcast to about Disney World and I always Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if you had like a Betty and URLs like biscuit stand or a biscuit restaurant and Disney? I gotta tell you, it's a my Jen's gonna kill me but my business partner But yeah, I gotta tell you I I see things how do I say this? I have I have concepts in my head and I am there a lot and I ever time where there stuff I think to myself, Jen's not going to kill me with this because she does agree. When I were walking around Disney Springs, which for people that don't know is kind of the dining and entertainment fourth kind of park there in Orlando. I think to myself, if we were there, we would kill it. I mean, I have no doubt if we did like biscuit sandwiches. And you know, like Art Smith over Chef Art Smith has a southern place there. And every time I go in there, I'm like, we can do this. We can do this just as well, if not better when it gets to your biscuits are better than his. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I was gonna say it. But I thought I'd let you say at first. No, he has a restaurant in South Carolina that I've been to. And I don't know, like you, when you go to the south, you kind of expect that biscuits are going to be amazing, right? And they're always Yeah, right. And not very tasty and kind of salty. And some of them have the flaky rate. But if it's flaky and is dry, it doesn't even matter. Because you still can't chew it. It's like, Yeah, I don't know. Whether, yeah, well, you know, one of the collaborations i didn't i i'm sure i thought when you said to Gird your loins, I thought you're going to ask me specifically about some collaborations we're doing, are you? Should I continue to gird my loins? Are you going to ask me or let me know, I'm not going to ask you because there are things that I know is your friend. And I'm one that has done freelance work with Jen's business, that I feel like I aren't my place to tell. But you can say whatever it is that you'd like, wow, you're being very look at you stuff. look very thing. You're being very good. Yeah, I'm allowed to say, I've gotten permission from mom, I have permission to say, we're really excited because we are going to be at the fair this year. We're going to be at the Minnesota State Fair. And and it's going to be great. we're teaming up with the with Charlie, Charlie, Charlie burrows. And we're going to be at Lulus. And I, as you can see, I can't even find words, and I communicate for a living. What a dream, what truly a dream. And we got an email and I was like, what, and we pursued it and dealt with Charlie, good guy, great guy. We brought biscuits over, let me rephrase that Jen brought biscuits over, traveled far and wide to bring biscuits over. And luckily, the team loved them. And it was a good old fashioned deal. It really was, I was like, wow, this is how, like, almost like a handshake deal. And yeah, and I loved that aspect of it. If I if I can say, Great guy. And that's a great way to step into the fair environment without like going full on fair as it were, you know, where you're having to staff your own booth. And because I think staffing is just going to be such a challenge out of the fair this year. So yep, it'll be a nice introduction for you. You can still be there. You can test the waters, you can support Charlie's business, which is great. Lewis does such a great job. But yeah, it's not like you having to literally be on the line making the biscuits when it's 95 degrees out. Yeah. And that's a good point stuff because, look, they're the experts. You know, they know the fair, we know biscuits, so it was a really good it was a really good marriage. And I'm assuming by the time this airs, you know, the payer will have already put their stuff out some some people will know but if they don't, I can't give too many details, but there'll be two items. And one excuse me a sweeter item and the other a chicken item a sandwich item so savory savory and sweet Stephanie is in the business. Yeah. Oh, I'm I can't even begin to tell you I already love affair but now. Betty and her all pap on ma'am are going to be at the Minnesota State Fair. I mean, they are smiling down from heaven. Let me tell you, will you be out there introducing the products and handshaking and slapping and kissing? Yes. It's done. Told Charlie I will do whatever I will dress like a giant biscuit. I will. I will do a musical number I'll do whatever. Costume you need a biscuit dough. Stephanie. Stephanie. Do not give Jen any ideas. Why in the world do you just say that if don't like in a giant hot pad, you know, kind of the hands and stuff now you're just you're just causing me grief. You're just causing me grief. But no, I all kidding aside, I'm out there anyway for both shows. So I will you will see me at lose probably too much they'll probably lose people will probably want me to leave. Why? Why is this gang guy out here again? What did he buy Lulu is to see what's happening. Well, congratulations to you. That's a big announcement. And I have enjoyed hearing more about Betty and Charles and just about the side of you that I don't think people see so much. Can I ask a personal question before we wrap up here? Why you can ask? Well, why do you like you're literally one of the most ambitious people I know. Why are you like that? Where did that come from? I think it's because, well, a, I think it comes from my mom, my mom owned her own business. Okay, so I saw that, I saw what owning your own business can do for your self esteem. And I severely lacked self esteem lacks present tense, I'm very insecure. So I saw that my mom got a sense of identity and independence. From my dad promoting our own business, I didn't even know that I was adjusting that. So I think that's where it comes from. So that and I think the ambition comes from doing things that I love, it really does. It sounds woowoo. But like I said, I'm lucky, I always knew I would do TV. So that wasn't a hard decision. Um, so I'm motivated because it's, it's what I'm supposed to be doing. And with the biscuits, I'm motivated by I'm motivated by the fact that they're really good every time Jen and I go to these collaboration stuff. This sounds a little bit. I don't mean this to sound as conceited as it is going to come out. But we sit there and we'll we try all the stuff stuff. And Jen and I always look at each other, we go like this. Damn, these are good. These are just really good biscuits. We do every time. It's like, Todd, Adrian and the team just these are just day in and day out. They're just, they're just really good. It's like, Yeah, they are. So I'm motivated by that. But it's an easy product to love. It's funny to hear you say that you lack self esteem and that you're in the zoo. Because you are in a very forward facing job in terms of being on the radio and in terms of being on television, a lot of it's unscripted. And also being the face of something as this biscuit You know, it must hurt your feelings. If someone doesn't love what you're doing. It does it. But you know what actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it stuff, because I'm just like comedian stand up comedians, you do a job like you do the job that I have to get validation from people. It's not healthy. I mean, my therapist, it's not, you know, and I don't need it as much anymore. Thank goodness. I don't need I don't need strangers to I don't need, I don't need strangers to kind of qualify my worth any more as much as I used to. But that's the whole reason I got into it. One of the reasons I didn't have any friends, so I got a lot of self worth and self identity from the jobs. But yeah, especially because the biscuits. Yeah, if people don't like him stuff, when I read the comments, and I try not to like keep away from that now. But when I do, it's doubly personal. It's It's my business. And it's my family stuff. It's like I almost take it like they're talking about Betty and Earl themselves. So that's why hashtag don't read the comments. Yeah, I'm glad that you're learning that someone in the radio business told me that a little too late in the start of my career. And it took me a long time to actually take it to heart. And to because you can't read the comments, and then do what you do, because it impacts what you say. You're always trying to coach something you're not honest. And I'm not for everyone. I mean, let's just be honest, I'm normally and yet I'm very uninteresting if I am not just saying it like it is as it occurs to me in that moment. And I'm self filtering or self editing. Yeah, nobody wants to hear that. It's not very fun. No, no. And I found myself doing that stuff. Like a few years ago, there was an uptick in like, homophobic email sent to me. And I remember, um, it was a really, it was a really hard period for me and I remember catching myself editing myself and, and editing the show to appease You know, this random person and that random person I thought, No, no, no, no, this is not a broadcast I'm, I'm molding the show to fit, you know, fill in, in new Brighton and Sally and an oak. I'm like, No, no, no, that's not a show. I'm going to do the show the way that I think the show should be done. I will accept constructive criticism and feedback. But I'm not going to tailor the broadcast to the whims of somebody that could be in a bad mood, and are just taking that bad mood out on my blog. So that was a valuable lesson too. And the same with biscuits. You know, same with the biscuits. Um, food is subjective, you know that stuff. I mean, so if someone doesn't like it, there's just a lot of people that don't like biscuits. I've learned that so I don't really take Yeah. And I, you know, I also confidence from the fact that I know they're good. Um, so if someone doesn't like them, I'm like, okay, maybe they just like biscuits. Yeah, I know, I stand tall and the fact that they're good. And it's family. It's a legacy. It really is. It's a big word. But you know, it is it's my, my Pep on grandma. So well, it's great to talk to you and learn more about Betty and Charles, congratulations to you. Congratulations to Adrian to Jennifer Luke. You guys are doing a great job at putting this business together. And, you know, the pandemic, we learned a lot of things from it. I think in some, you know, it wasn't great that it happened. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs learned a lot about themselves. I think they had a lot of tenacity and found new channels of revenue. You'd never probably done gold belly without the pandemic. No, I mean, probably. Who knows? Jen is so motivated, she probably would have. But you're right, we wouldn't have made a lot of moves. But But thank you, I want to end by saying thanks to you, you know, you and I are real friends. And you're on my show. But I got to tell you it really and I mean this I'm not trying to be goofy or overly sentimental. It means a lot for any member of the food, writing food journalist family in this city to acknowledge Betty in URLs. You know, we're not fancy but you know, we don't have a lot of bells and whistles and but we have so the fact that you wanted to talk about it on your show on your podcast means a great deal. So I really, really, really do appreciate it. I don't take it for granted. Yeah, well, and the gravy. We didn't even talk about your delicious gravy. And that's Adrian. Yeah, I agree that sausage and biscuits is the bomb too. So if anyone's listening, get to a potluck and Rosedale and get to Betty and Earls which is inside potluck and Rosedale. And you can also order on gold belly and cross your fingers that you'll get an opportunity to meet Jace at the State Fair. Fight. You can find me at the Lulus booth. You know where I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be at the bar. Lulus watching you in some kind of weird pickle beer and wait for my biscuit chicken sandwich is what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to go back and forth between the fair stuff and hanging out outside various lens and buyer leads until they let me in with my frozen fish. I think that's the trail and if you're listening or if anyone knows him, come on, get on the horn. And how about those Kowalski still? Yes. And cub foods and where else you know, trade anywhere all day, we can get going everywhere. All right, buddy unrolls thanks for joining me Jase. Bye Bye, sweetie.